The Citizens Bank slogan often used in their ads is" Citizens Bank, not your typical bank” I say Thank Goodness for that! Well, let's see how they treat their "Citizens".
My Nightmare with Citizens bank of MA and RI.
I don’t know where to begin to tell you the horrible experience I have had with Citizens bank over the last few years. So, I wil try and chronicle by time period where my nightmare all started. But, what I have experienced is that in my 30+ years banking for personal and business it is shocking that a bank like Citizens is allowed to get away with such sleazy and deceptive tactics against their customers. It is quite obvious they look for every opportunity, every crevice to swindle their customers of such bizarre fees they seem to concoct on the fly. .
Below is a letter I wrote to the MA Attorney General and Comptroller of the Currency in 2009. It all began when I realized Citizens Bank was “stacking the Deck” which is a deceptive tactic they use to exponentially trigger Overdrafts and hence swindle their customers out of Millions of dollars in overdraft fees.
Letter Begins:Here is what happened to me the week of May 18, 2009
On Monday evening May 18, 2009, while out of town, I knew I had to get to a computer to add funds to my Citizens Bank account as I had several small debits coming in. I knew I had enough to cover 12 out of the 13 incoming debits. I unfortunately never got to a computer to transfer funds. So, instead of the expected one overdraft fee, I got TWELVE overdrafts. A nice hefty profit and transfer from MY account to Citizen's account with the blink of an updated computer program. Consequently, what I did NOT realize until Tuesday morning is that Citizen's “practice” of debiting accounts is NOT, as I thought the smaller debits all paid first, or even as they are posted, BUT “intentionally” from LARGEST debit to smallest. Now, when I called Citizens I was given the canned response that Citizens does this to “help the customer pay for their most important payments first”. I was amazed that Citizens knows so much about ME and what is important to me! But, the reality was another customer suffered a very painful penalty and Citizens profited over $300. This appears to be a bank that employs extremely severe and shady overdraft fee tactics to substantially add to their “bottom line”.
But, what underscores the immediate need for the Attorney General to investigate the “should be illegal” tactics at Citizens are the following:
1). Citizens overdraft system is configured to swindle customers in the event of a checking account imbalance, and in one massive, shocking onslaught of overdraft charges..
2). Citizens overdraft system is designed to “explode” and destroy a customer’s checking account balance on a Tuesday following the weekend. This scenario is extremely dangerous and harmful to customers who don’t have a chance to correct an accumulation of 3-4 days of minor debit card charges before Citizens slams the account with massive, unbelievable overdraft charges.
3). I found out too late from a Citizens rep that when a checking account has “overdraft protection” charges will NOT be denied (and hence no overdraft charge for Citizens), they will continue to go through, even with a negative balance. Again, another unscrupulous tactic for Citizens to maximize their overdraft revenues. My seven overdraft charges were all weekend charges, all under $10 each. And, each incurred a $39 overdraft charge.4). On Tuesday May 19, 2009 I transferred enough to bring my account to a positive balance. That day I charged $6.80 for Chinese food for lunch. The next day Citizens added ANOTHER overdraft charge of $39, because with their $273 overdraft fees it brought my balance BACK to negative, so the Chinese food charge of $6.80 over drafted.
As mentioned above, on May 19, 2009 my last seven debits were all under $10 but of course didn’t clear because Citizens overdraft system was sure to deplete the funds with all the higher debits FIRST. Resulting in SEVEN $39 overdrafts for debits under $10
Citizens comment and practice of “paying the most important charges first” is of course nonsense and we all know WHY Citizens has “designed” their overdraft system to post HIGH to LOW along with numerous other unscrupulous revenue producing tactics
The scary issue here is probably at least 90% of Citizen Bank customers are unaware of the details of these seedy overdraft tactics. I know Citizens will announce that “other banks do the same thing”, but that doesn’t make these crafty practices ethical. Frankly, I am shocked such deceitful activity is legal.
I got my inspiration to contact the Attorney General from RipoffReport.com, and a story about someone who had an almost identical problem with Citizens. Any assistance you may be able to provide recovering the total $309.00 in fees discussed herein would be greatly appreciated.
END of Letter
One year later
Congress did enact a law requiring banks to allow customers to OPT OUT of what the banks call “overdraft protection”. This is where the bank will pay a debit charge when the checking account is at zero or overdrawn. In the distant past a zero balance account would decline any charges to the credit or debit card. However, during the past few years some of the larger greedy banks, like Citizens smelled an opportunity to substantially add to their profits by paying for example the $5 hamburger and then hit the customer for, in Citizens case, a $37 overdraft fee. And they would keep doing it until for example, when Tuesday morning came and all the debit posts were updated, the customer would wake up to a nightmare of a long list of overdrafts. A real joke and insult to our intelligence that they call it some kind of a protection program. So now they have to notify customers that they can opt out and if we accidentally use our debit cards with a zero balance, the charge will decline and no overdraft. So what did the Citizens rep say to me while filling out my Opt Out form, “yeah the bank is going to raise fees in other areas to make up for all that lost revenue”. Nice bank right?
Unfortunately, Congress only required banks to do this for Personal accounts (according to the Citizens rep). Hence, Citizens and some of the larger banks can still give the shaft to their Business Customers. Which I found out after Citizens posted five overdrafts to my business account. But, this time I had enough and filed a small claims against them. Citizens decided to settle out of court. About two weeks later I get a notice that Citizens is closing one of my business accounts. No big deal, I had planned to move my accounts to another bank after the first of the year which was a month away so I had time. But, the letter from Citizens was vague , no date when they would actually close the account. It just said they would send a check on December 21, 2010 for whatever balance was left. But, I had automatic payments to my business accounts (I had one personal and two business accounts).
So it was a week of great confusion. How long did I have? What payments might not clear depending on when they would close the account? So a week later I called the local Citizens branch manager. She revealed to me “they are closing ALL your accounts”. Yikes! Now I was in panic mode. I hadn’t had time to open new accounts at the other bank. I had a number of automatic payments to the Citizens accounts. She suggested I “get all the money out of your accounts”. So, I did. I know this was all about me challenging Citizens deceptive overdraft policy, which they were obviously too embarrassed to have discussed in court. But, it was quite amateurish that the bank was behaving like an angry , spoiled child and “getting even” with me. . Of course I am sure they have a “canned answer” for this policy as they do for their so-called overdraft “protection” policy. Meanwhile, imagine if I had not called my local branch to try and extract details on when, where , how they were closing my account, I would never had known they were unbeknownst to me, closing ALL my accounts.
Two days later I noticed a charge to one of the business accounts for about $1100. So I went down to the bank to make an immediate deposit from my New bank account. Next, Citizens Returned the $1100 charge but, didn’t “miss a beat”. They hit me up for Two overdrafts in the meantime. I contacted a Customer Resolution Dept on December 20, 2010 and the rep told me that the accounts were closed so the $1100 deposit was credited back. He also stated NO Future Charges would post, any charges would be declined. I pressed him on this issue asking again , “so I do not need to make any deposits to cover any charges that may post”. He confirmed “No”. I then called them again on Dec 22 and another rep confirmed the same. (But, note this and see what they did about 3 weeks later.
** Also they would NOT release these $1100 funds to me and would manipulate these funds for other accounts and whatever unique fees they could take from the $1100 deposit). Ok, I thought maybe we are getting somewhere. He also told me two checks of the balance from the two business accounts would be mailed to me on December 21, 2010. During the weeks of December 27th and January 3rd the only calls I made to Citizens were about the checks never arriving. SO they informed me they would re-issue checks.
Fast forward to January 13, 2011. I get two letters in the mail concerning the personal account and one of the business accounts. The letters stated the accounts were in overdraft (Again?) and I had to go to a Citizens Branch and make payments to cover the shortage in funds. Wait! Didn’t I have TWO conversations with Citizens reps on Dec 20th and Dec 22nd that my accounts were closed as of December 21, 2010 and NO charges would post, instead all charges would be DECLINED? The personal account letter stated I was short $234. BUt, are you ready? Here we go again. The Citizens Scam Machine continued to work its way into whatever funds I have lingering in their bank. Citizens posted TEN “service charges” for $6.99 each in my personal account during the last couple weeks of January 2011, when my accounts were suppose to be CLOSED/Frozen on December 21, 2010. As of writing this I have no idea WHERE these came from. But, being a Citizens customer for the last five years, fabricated “fees” don’t surprise me anymore. So I’ll get the scoop on this latest bizarre, unscrupulous tactic in the morning.
NEXT DAY: January 14, 2011
Below is a Continuation summary of questionable tactics Citizens is continuing to use to funnel off as much of the remaining balances to my business and personal accounts..
1). After numerous deceptive overdraft charge tactics employed by Citizens bank I filed a laws suit in small claims court in October of 2010. Citizens for reasons obvious decided to settle out of court.
2). About 2-3 weeks after the “overdraft charge scheme” settlement I received a letter that Citizens was closing one of my two business accounts, with no specific date of closure
3). On about December 13, 2010 I called the local branch manager (as identified on the “closure letter”. At that time she informed me Citizens was closing ALL my accounts (two personal and two business and I should withdraw all funds out of my accounts. Hence, I emptied my business accounts.
4). On about December 16, 2010 I noticed a charge of $1100 to one of my accounts which put it into the negative. I immediate made a deposit of $1200 to that account.
5). On December 20th I called the Citizens Business Banking Customer Advocate Group which I assume handles closed accounts. I spoke to Bret and he informed me that my accounts were closed and any future charges would be returned, hence I did not have to worry about overdrafts. (if they deny he said then ask for a copy of the taped conversation). I pressed him and asked to confirm no that I would NOT have to make any deposits. He confirmed NO. Which was evident when they “returned”, credited the $1200 deposit I made on about 12/16/10. *This is important to note, as you will read in later chronological events below.
5b). Also, Bret informed me that TWO checks would be issued to me on December 21, 2010 representing the balances of the two business accounts. I believe this is also when we discussed some of the balance would be used to offset the “$1000 Overdraft Protection” I had on my personal account.
6). On December 22, 2010 I noticed that Citizens DID charge me TWO overdrafts for the business account in #4 above.
7). On December 22, 2010 I called Business Banking Customer Advocate Group again and spoke to Christina. I asked her about the overdrafts. She said they should not have been applied and she would remove them. She confirmed what Bret said, that I would not have any more charges to my accounts because they were closed and anything remaining would be returned. ** VERY important as this story would change when I speak to Kim from the Business Banking Customer Advocate Group in later events below.
8). During the week of January 3, 2011 I contacted the Business Banking Customer Advocate Group again to inquire about the two checks.
9). On January 13, 2010 I received two letters from Citizens that my personal and business account were “overdrawn” and I needed I go to a bank and make deposits to these account. WHAT? Remember what happened in #5 and 5b above?
10). On January 13, 2011 I again contacted the Citizens Business Banking Customer Advocate Group and this time spoke to a Kim. She informed me that charges came in later and there wasn’t enough to cover the charges (since they removed the overdraft protection and also transferred money from my business accounts into my personal accounts. But, she said More money was moved from the business account (that I was told was closed out on December 21, 2010 and a check was issued for the balance, and almost a MONTH later Citizens is still manipulating my business and personal funds). QUESTION: Why didn’t Citizens just issue me a balance or invoice of what I owed instead of moving money between business and personal accounts? Resulting in this frenzy of activity and anxiety.
11). ON January 14, 2011 I noticed in my Citizens personal account about TEN “service charges” for $6.99. I called Banking Customer Advocate Group and spoke to Kim again and she said those were “overdraft service fees” because everyday my account was in the negative ws a service charge of $6.99. Reading above WHY was it in the negative? They Confirmed several times they would be NO charges (all would be returned) after December 21, 2011. BUT, with all the excuses and rational Citizens will throw up against the wall, ASK THEM, WHY didn’t you move the shortage from the business accounts as you were already dog from the beginning. AND, HOW could the customer do anything? Citizens already told me and DID “RETURN” deposits I made after the December 21, 2011 cutoff (see #4 & 5 above). WOW!
12). January 14, 2011, I noticed I had several UNIDENTIFIED charges to my account that would just say “Debit”. So much highly QUESTIONABLE Citizens bank activity and usage of my funds has been going on that I asked Kim to provide a statement that detailed what, how, why and when funds where moved between accounts. She just told me to go to a local branch. However, it is obvious a local branch would not have the capacity to solve this “riddle”. And the statements the branch managers could see are the same as my online statements with multiple unidentified debits.
As of January 14, 2010 I need detailed reports of all the activity between my accounts and the movement between the accounts. I will seek help from banking regulation agencies including the Comptroller of the Currency and Federal Reserve.
UPdate - March 7, 2011:
Also, I would like to inform you that Citizens sent me a letter I received on December 23, 2010 stating that my account XXXXXXXX was closed on December 21,2010. However, I made a car payment to Sovereign on December 17, 2010, that had a STOP PAYMENT applied by Citizens. I didn’t find out about it until early January 2011 and it resulted in a $15 fee from Sovereign but Most Damaging resulted in a 30 Day late mark on my credit report.
Update: May 2012:
I had contacted the Comptroller of the Currency about the multiple $6.99 charges Citizens applied AFTER I was told by Two Citizens Reps I could NOT be charged any fees since my account was being closed by Citizens. But Citizens refused to rev4erse the $57 in charges and defended their actions in their response to the Comptroller of the Currency (COC). The COC sent me a final letter saying they could not do anything about Citizens refusal to reserve these charges, BUT that I DID have a legitimate complaint against them I should pursue legally. But for $57 there was no sense in spending anymore time on this. In the end, I think this case says volumes about the questionable ethical practice of Citizens Bank.
UpDate 11-17-12:
I get a notice in the mail today that a class action suit for $137.5 Million settlement against RBS Citizens has been reached as a result of Citizens overdraft practice of "posting debits from highest to lowest". Imagine that!!
However, I wonder if a lawsuit will also be field against Citizens for other unscrupulous overdraft schemes they use to bilk their customers with high overdraft fees? For example, at some point a couple years before I left Citizens they changed their "Pending debits" to automatically trigger overdraft charges, BEFORE the debit actually posts. Other banks do NOT penalized customers for PENDING changes. ONLY after the debit actually posts does it affect the account and potential overdraft if applicable. NOT Citizens. They now immediately trigger their overdraft machine with Pending charges, even though the account itself is not actually gone negative.
Friday, April 15, 2011
Tuesday, January 18, 2011
My Nightmare with Citizens bank of MA and RI: Complaint,Ripoff,Scam
The Citizens Bank slogan often used in their ads is" Citizens Bank, not your typical bank” I say Thank Goodness for that! Well, let's see how they treat their "Citizens".
My Nightmare with Citizens bank of MA and RI.
I don’t know where to begin to tell you the horrible experience I have had with Citizens bank over the last few years. So, I wil try and chronicle by time period where my nightmare all started. But, what I have experienced is that in my 30+ years banking for personal and business it is shocking that a bank like Citizens is allowed to get away with such sleazy and deceptive tactic against their customers. It seems they look for every opportunity, every crevice to swindle their customers of such bizarre fees they seem to concoct on the fly. .
Below is a letter I wrote to the MA Attorney General and Comptroller of the Currency in 2009. It all began when I realized Citizens Bank was “stacking the Deck” which is a deceptive tactic they use to exponentially trigger Overdrafts and hence swindle their customers out of Millions of dollars in overdraft fees.
Letter Begins:
Here is what happened to me the week of May 18, 2009
On Monday evening May 18, 2009, while out of town, I knew I had to get to a computer to add funds to my Citizens Bank account as I had several small debits coming in. I knew I had enough to cover 12 out of the 13 incoming debits. I unfortunately never got to a computer to transfer funds. BUT, what I did NOT realize until Tuesday morning is that Citizens “practice” of debiting accounts is NOT, as I thought the smaller debits all paid first, or even as they are posted, BUT “intentionally” from LARGEST debit to smallest. Now, when I called Citizens I was given the canned response that Citizens does this to “help the customer pay for their most important payments first”. I was amazed that Citizens knows so much about ME and what is important to me! But, the reality was another customer suffered a very painful penalty and Citizens profited over $300. This appears to be a bank that employs extremely severe and shady overdraft fee tactics to substantially add to their “bottom line”.
But, what underscores the immediate need for the Attorney General to investigate the “should be illegal” tactics at Citizens are the following:
1). Citizens overdraft system is configured to swindle customers in the event of a checking account imbalance, and in one massive, shocking onslaught of overdraft charges..
2). Citizens overdraft system is designed to “explode” and destroy a customer’s checking account balance on a Tuesday following the weekend. This scenario is extremely dangerous and harmful to customers who don’t have a chance to correct an accumulation of 3-4 days of minor debit card charges before Citizens slams the account with massive, unbelievable overdraft charges.
3). I found out too late from a Citizens rep that when a checking account has “overdraft protection” charges will NOT be denied (and hence no overdraft charge for Citizens), they will continue to go through, even with a negative balance. Again, another unscrupulous tactic for Citizens to maximize their overdraft revenues. My seven overdraft charges were all weekend charges, all under $10 each. And, each incurred a $39 overdraft charge.
4). On Tuesday May 19, 2009 I transferred enough to bring my account to a positive balance. That day I charged $6.80 for Chinese food for lunch. The next day Citizens added ANOTHER overdraft charge of $39, because with their $273 overdraft fees it brought my balance BACK to negative, so the Chinese food charge of $6.80 over drafted.
As mentioned above, on May 19, 2009 my last seven debits were all under $10 but of course didn’t clear because Citizens overdraft system was sure to deplete the funds with all the higher debits FIRST. Resulting in SEVEN $39 overdrafts for debits under $10 Citizens comment and practice of “paying the most important charges first” is of course nonsense and we all know WHY Citizens has “designed” their overdraft system to post HIGH to LOW along with numerous other unscrupulous revenue producing tactics The scary issue here is probably at least 90% of Citizen Bank customers are unaware of the details of these seedy overdraft tactics. I know Citizens will announce that “other banks do the same thing”, but that doesn’t make these crafty practices ethical.
Frankly, I am shocked such deceitful activity is legal. I got my inspiration to contact the Attorney General from RipoffReport.com, and a story about someone who had an almost identical problem with Citizens. Any assistance you may be able to provide recovering the total $309.00 in fees discussed herein would be greatly appreciated.
END of Letter
One year later
Congress did enact a law requiring banks to allow customers to OPT OUT of what the banks call “overdraft protection”. This is where the bank will pay a debit charge when the checking account is at zero or overdrawn. In the distant past a zero balance account would decline any charges to the credit or debit card.
However, during the past few years some of the larger greedy banks, like Citizens smelled an opportunity to substantially add to their profits by paying for example the $5 hamburger and then hit the customer for, in Citizens case, a $37 overdraft fee. And they would keep doing it until for example, when Tuesday morning came and all the debit posts were updated, the customer would wake up to a nightmare of a long list of overdrafts. A real joke and insult to our intelligence that they call it some kind of a protection program. So now they have to notify customers that they can opt out and if we accidentally use our debit cards with a zero balance, the charge will decline and no overdraft. So what did the Citizens rep say to me while filling out my Opt Out form, “yeah the bank is going to raise fees in other areas to make up for all that lost revenue”. Nice bank right?
Unfortunately, Congress only required banks to do this for Personal accounts (according to the Citizens rep). Hence, Citizens and some of the larger banks can still give the shaft to their Business Customers. Which I found out after Citizens posted five overdrafts to my business account. But, this time I had enough and filed a small claims against them. Citizens decided to settle out of court. About two weeks later I get a notice that Citizens is closing one of my business accounts. No big deal, I had planned to move my accounts to another bank after the first of the year which was a month away so I had time. But, the letter from Citizens was vague , no date when they would actually close the account. It just said they would send a check on December 21, 2010 for whatever balance was left. But, I had automatic payments to my business accounts (I had one personal and two business accounts). So it was a week of great confusion. How long did I have? What payments might not clear depending on when they would close the account? So a week later I called the local Citizens branch manager.
The Citizens Branch Manager revealed to me “they are closing ALL your accounts”. Yikes! Now I was in panic mode. I hadn’t had time to open new accounts at the other bank. I had a number of automatic payments to the Citizens accounts. She suggested I “get all the money out of your accounts”. So, I did. I know this was all about me challenging Citizens deceptive overdraft policy, which they were obviously too embarrassed to have discussed in court. But, it was quite amateurish that the bank was behaving like an angry , spoiled child and “getting even” with me. . Of course I am sure they have a “canned answer” for this policy as they do for their so-called overdraft “protection” policy. Meanwhile, imagine if I had not called my local branch to try and extract details on when, where , how they were closing my account, I would never had known they were unbeknownst to me, closing ALL my accounts.
Two days later I noticed a charge to one of the business accounts for about $1100. So I went down to the bank to make an immediate deposit from my New bank account.
Next, Citizens Returned the $1100 charge but, didn’t “miss a beat”. They hit me up for Two overdrafts in the meantime. I contacted a Customer Resolution Dept on December 20, 2010 and the rep told me that the accounts were closed so the $1100 deposit was credited back. He also stated NO Future Charges would post, any charges would be declined. I pressed him on this issue asking again , “so I do not need to make any deposits to cover any charges that may post”. He confirmed “No”. I then called them again on Dec 22 and another rep confirmed the same. (But, note this and see what they did about 3 weeks later. ** Also they would NOT release these $1100 funds to me and would manipulate these funds for other accounts and whatever unique fees they could take form the $1100 deposit). Ok, I thought maybe we are getting somewhere. He also told me two checks of the balance from the two business accounts would be mailed to me on December 21, 2010. During the weeks of December 27th and January 3rd the only calls I made to Citizens were about the checks never arriving. SO they informed me they would re-issue checks.
Fast forward to January 13, 2011.
I get two letters in the mail concerning the personal account and one of the business accounts. The letters stated the accounts were in overdraft (Again?) and I had to go to a Citizens Branch and make payments to cover the shortage in funds. Wait! Didn’t I have TWO conversations with Citizens reps on Dec 20th and Dec 22nd that my accounts were closed as of December 21, 2010 and NO charges would post, instead all charges would be DECLINED? The personal account letter stated I was short $234. BUt, are you ready? Here we go again. The Citizens Scam Machine continued to work its way into whatever funds I have lingering in their bank. Citizens posted TEN “service charges” for $6.99 each in my personal account during the last couple weeks of January 2011, when my accounts were suppose to be CLOSED/Frozen on December 21, 2010. As of writing this I have no idea WHERE these came from. But, being a Citizens customer for the last five years, fabricated “fees” don’t surprise me anymore. So I’ll get the scoop on this latest bizarre, unscrupulous tactic in the morning.
NEXT DAY: January 14, 2011
Below is a Continuation summary of questionable tactics Citizens is continuing to use to funnel off as much of the remaining balances to my business and personal accounts..
1). After numerous deceptive overdraft charge tactics employed by Citizens bank I filed a laws suit in small claims court in October of 2010. Citizens for reasons obvious decided to settle out of court.
2). About 2-3 weeks after the “overdraft charge scheme” settlement I received a letter that Citizens was closing one of my two business accounts, with no specific date of closure
3). On about December 13, 2010 I called the local branch manager (as identified on the “closure letter”. At that time she informed me Citizens was closing ALL my accounts (two personal and two business and I should withdraw all funds out of my accounts. Hence, I emptied my business accounts.
4). On about December 16, 2010 I noticed a charge of $1100 to one of my accounts which put it into the negative. I immediate made a deposit of $1200 to that account.
5). On December 20th I called the Citizens Business Banking Customer Advocate Group which I assume handles closed accounts. I spoke to Bret and he informed me that my accounts were closed and any future charges would be returned, hence I did not have to worry about overdrafts. (if they deny he said then ask for a copy of the taped conversation). I pressed him and asked to confirm no that I would NOT have to make any deposits. He confirmed NO. Which was evident when they “returned”, credited the $1200 deposit I made on about 12/16/10. *This is important to note, as you will read in later chronological events below.
5b). Also, Bret informed me that TWO checks would be issued to me on December 21, 2010 representing the balances of the two business accounts. I believe this is also when we discussed some of the balance would be used to offset the “$1000 Overdraft Protection” I had on my personal account.
6). On December 22, 2010 I noticed that Citizens DID charge me TWO overdrafts for the business account in #4 above.
7). On December 22, 2010 I called Business Banking Customer Advocate Group again and spoke to Christina. I asked her about the overdrafts. She said they should not have been applied and she would remove them. She confirmed what Bret said, that I would not have any more charges to my accounts because they were closed and anything remaining would be returned. ** VERY important as this story would change when I speak to Kim from the Business Banking Customer Advocate Group in later events below.
8). During the week of January 3, 2011 I contacted the Business Banking Customer Advocate Group again to inquire about the two checks.
9). On January 13, 2010 I received two letters from Citizens that my personal and business account were “overdrawn” and I needed I go to a bank and make deposits to these account. WHAT? Remember what happened in #5 and 5b above?
10). On January 13, 2011 I again contacted the Citizens Business Banking Customer Advocate Group and this time spoke to a Kim. She informed me that charges came in later and there wasn’t enough to cover the charges (since they removed the overdraft protection and also transferred money from my business accounts into my personal accounts. But, she said More money was moved from the business account (that I was told was closed out on December 21, 2010 and a check was issued for the balance, and almost a MONTH later Citizens is still manipulating my business and personal funds). QUESTION: Why didn’t Citizens just issue me a balance or invoice of what I owed instead of moving money between business and personal accounts? Resulting in this frenzy of activity and anxiety.
11). ON January 14, 2011 I noticed in my Citizens personal account about TEN “service charges” for $6.99. I called Banking Customer Advocate Group and spoke to Kim again and she said those were “overdraft service fees” because everyday my account was in the negative ws a service charge of $6.99. Reading above WHY was it in the negative? They Confirmed several times they would be NO charges (all would be returned) after December 21, 2011. BUT, with all the excuses and rational Citizens will throw up against the wall, ASK THEM, WHY didn’t you move the shortage from the business accounts as you were already dog from the beginning. AND, HOW could the customer do anything? Citizens already told me and DID “RETURN” deposits I made after the December 21, 2011 cutoff (see #4 & 5 above). WOW!
12). January 14, 2011, I noticed I had several UNIDENTIFIED charges to my account that would just say “Debit”. So much highly QUESTIONABLE Citizens bank activity and usage of my funds has been going on that I asked Kim to provide a statement that detailed what, how, why and when funds where moved between accounts. She just told me to go to a local branch. However, it is obvious a local branch would not have the capacity to solve this “riddle”. And the statements the branch managers could see are the same as my online statements with multiple unidentified debits.
As of January 14, 2010 I need detailed reports of all the activity between my accounts and the movement between the accounts. I will seek help from banking regulation agencies including the Comptroller of the Currency and Federal Reserve.
UPdate - March 7, 2011:
Also, I would like to inform you that Citizens sent me a letter I received on December 23, 2010 stating that my account XXXXXXXX was closed on December 21,2010. However, I made a car payment to Sovereign on December 17, 2010, that had a STOP PAYMENT applied by Citizens. I didn’t find out about it until early January 2011 and it resulted in a $15 fee from Sovereign but Most Damaging resulted in a 30 Day late mark on my credit report.
My Nightmare with Citizens bank of MA and RI.
I don’t know where to begin to tell you the horrible experience I have had with Citizens bank over the last few years. So, I wil try and chronicle by time period where my nightmare all started. But, what I have experienced is that in my 30+ years banking for personal and business it is shocking that a bank like Citizens is allowed to get away with such sleazy and deceptive tactic against their customers. It seems they look for every opportunity, every crevice to swindle their customers of such bizarre fees they seem to concoct on the fly. .
Below is a letter I wrote to the MA Attorney General and Comptroller of the Currency in 2009. It all began when I realized Citizens Bank was “stacking the Deck” which is a deceptive tactic they use to exponentially trigger Overdrafts and hence swindle their customers out of Millions of dollars in overdraft fees.
Letter Begins:
Here is what happened to me the week of May 18, 2009
On Monday evening May 18, 2009, while out of town, I knew I had to get to a computer to add funds to my Citizens Bank account as I had several small debits coming in. I knew I had enough to cover 12 out of the 13 incoming debits. I unfortunately never got to a computer to transfer funds. BUT, what I did NOT realize until Tuesday morning is that Citizens “practice” of debiting accounts is NOT, as I thought the smaller debits all paid first, or even as they are posted, BUT “intentionally” from LARGEST debit to smallest. Now, when I called Citizens I was given the canned response that Citizens does this to “help the customer pay for their most important payments first”. I was amazed that Citizens knows so much about ME and what is important to me! But, the reality was another customer suffered a very painful penalty and Citizens profited over $300. This appears to be a bank that employs extremely severe and shady overdraft fee tactics to substantially add to their “bottom line”.
But, what underscores the immediate need for the Attorney General to investigate the “should be illegal” tactics at Citizens are the following:
1). Citizens overdraft system is configured to swindle customers in the event of a checking account imbalance, and in one massive, shocking onslaught of overdraft charges..
2). Citizens overdraft system is designed to “explode” and destroy a customer’s checking account balance on a Tuesday following the weekend. This scenario is extremely dangerous and harmful to customers who don’t have a chance to correct an accumulation of 3-4 days of minor debit card charges before Citizens slams the account with massive, unbelievable overdraft charges.
3). I found out too late from a Citizens rep that when a checking account has “overdraft protection” charges will NOT be denied (and hence no overdraft charge for Citizens), they will continue to go through, even with a negative balance. Again, another unscrupulous tactic for Citizens to maximize their overdraft revenues. My seven overdraft charges were all weekend charges, all under $10 each. And, each incurred a $39 overdraft charge.
4). On Tuesday May 19, 2009 I transferred enough to bring my account to a positive balance. That day I charged $6.80 for Chinese food for lunch. The next day Citizens added ANOTHER overdraft charge of $39, because with their $273 overdraft fees it brought my balance BACK to negative, so the Chinese food charge of $6.80 over drafted.
As mentioned above, on May 19, 2009 my last seven debits were all under $10 but of course didn’t clear because Citizens overdraft system was sure to deplete the funds with all the higher debits FIRST. Resulting in SEVEN $39 overdrafts for debits under $10 Citizens comment and practice of “paying the most important charges first” is of course nonsense and we all know WHY Citizens has “designed” their overdraft system to post HIGH to LOW along with numerous other unscrupulous revenue producing tactics The scary issue here is probably at least 90% of Citizen Bank customers are unaware of the details of these seedy overdraft tactics. I know Citizens will announce that “other banks do the same thing”, but that doesn’t make these crafty practices ethical.
Frankly, I am shocked such deceitful activity is legal. I got my inspiration to contact the Attorney General from RipoffReport.com, and a story about someone who had an almost identical problem with Citizens. Any assistance you may be able to provide recovering the total $309.00 in fees discussed herein would be greatly appreciated.
END of Letter
One year later
Congress did enact a law requiring banks to allow customers to OPT OUT of what the banks call “overdraft protection”. This is where the bank will pay a debit charge when the checking account is at zero or overdrawn. In the distant past a zero balance account would decline any charges to the credit or debit card.
However, during the past few years some of the larger greedy banks, like Citizens smelled an opportunity to substantially add to their profits by paying for example the $5 hamburger and then hit the customer for, in Citizens case, a $37 overdraft fee. And they would keep doing it until for example, when Tuesday morning came and all the debit posts were updated, the customer would wake up to a nightmare of a long list of overdrafts. A real joke and insult to our intelligence that they call it some kind of a protection program. So now they have to notify customers that they can opt out and if we accidentally use our debit cards with a zero balance, the charge will decline and no overdraft. So what did the Citizens rep say to me while filling out my Opt Out form, “yeah the bank is going to raise fees in other areas to make up for all that lost revenue”. Nice bank right?
Unfortunately, Congress only required banks to do this for Personal accounts (according to the Citizens rep). Hence, Citizens and some of the larger banks can still give the shaft to their Business Customers. Which I found out after Citizens posted five overdrafts to my business account. But, this time I had enough and filed a small claims against them. Citizens decided to settle out of court. About two weeks later I get a notice that Citizens is closing one of my business accounts. No big deal, I had planned to move my accounts to another bank after the first of the year which was a month away so I had time. But, the letter from Citizens was vague , no date when they would actually close the account. It just said they would send a check on December 21, 2010 for whatever balance was left. But, I had automatic payments to my business accounts (I had one personal and two business accounts). So it was a week of great confusion. How long did I have? What payments might not clear depending on when they would close the account? So a week later I called the local Citizens branch manager.
The Citizens Branch Manager revealed to me “they are closing ALL your accounts”. Yikes! Now I was in panic mode. I hadn’t had time to open new accounts at the other bank. I had a number of automatic payments to the Citizens accounts. She suggested I “get all the money out of your accounts”. So, I did. I know this was all about me challenging Citizens deceptive overdraft policy, which they were obviously too embarrassed to have discussed in court. But, it was quite amateurish that the bank was behaving like an angry , spoiled child and “getting even” with me. . Of course I am sure they have a “canned answer” for this policy as they do for their so-called overdraft “protection” policy. Meanwhile, imagine if I had not called my local branch to try and extract details on when, where , how they were closing my account, I would never had known they were unbeknownst to me, closing ALL my accounts.
Two days later I noticed a charge to one of the business accounts for about $1100. So I went down to the bank to make an immediate deposit from my New bank account.
Next, Citizens Returned the $1100 charge but, didn’t “miss a beat”. They hit me up for Two overdrafts in the meantime. I contacted a Customer Resolution Dept on December 20, 2010 and the rep told me that the accounts were closed so the $1100 deposit was credited back. He also stated NO Future Charges would post, any charges would be declined. I pressed him on this issue asking again , “so I do not need to make any deposits to cover any charges that may post”. He confirmed “No”. I then called them again on Dec 22 and another rep confirmed the same. (But, note this and see what they did about 3 weeks later. ** Also they would NOT release these $1100 funds to me and would manipulate these funds for other accounts and whatever unique fees they could take form the $1100 deposit). Ok, I thought maybe we are getting somewhere. He also told me two checks of the balance from the two business accounts would be mailed to me on December 21, 2010. During the weeks of December 27th and January 3rd the only calls I made to Citizens were about the checks never arriving. SO they informed me they would re-issue checks.
Fast forward to January 13, 2011.
I get two letters in the mail concerning the personal account and one of the business accounts. The letters stated the accounts were in overdraft (Again?) and I had to go to a Citizens Branch and make payments to cover the shortage in funds. Wait! Didn’t I have TWO conversations with Citizens reps on Dec 20th and Dec 22nd that my accounts were closed as of December 21, 2010 and NO charges would post, instead all charges would be DECLINED? The personal account letter stated I was short $234. BUt, are you ready? Here we go again. The Citizens Scam Machine continued to work its way into whatever funds I have lingering in their bank. Citizens posted TEN “service charges” for $6.99 each in my personal account during the last couple weeks of January 2011, when my accounts were suppose to be CLOSED/Frozen on December 21, 2010. As of writing this I have no idea WHERE these came from. But, being a Citizens customer for the last five years, fabricated “fees” don’t surprise me anymore. So I’ll get the scoop on this latest bizarre, unscrupulous tactic in the morning.
NEXT DAY: January 14, 2011
Below is a Continuation summary of questionable tactics Citizens is continuing to use to funnel off as much of the remaining balances to my business and personal accounts..
1). After numerous deceptive overdraft charge tactics employed by Citizens bank I filed a laws suit in small claims court in October of 2010. Citizens for reasons obvious decided to settle out of court.
2). About 2-3 weeks after the “overdraft charge scheme” settlement I received a letter that Citizens was closing one of my two business accounts, with no specific date of closure
3). On about December 13, 2010 I called the local branch manager (as identified on the “closure letter”. At that time she informed me Citizens was closing ALL my accounts (two personal and two business and I should withdraw all funds out of my accounts. Hence, I emptied my business accounts.
4). On about December 16, 2010 I noticed a charge of $1100 to one of my accounts which put it into the negative. I immediate made a deposit of $1200 to that account.
5). On December 20th I called the Citizens Business Banking Customer Advocate Group which I assume handles closed accounts. I spoke to Bret and he informed me that my accounts were closed and any future charges would be returned, hence I did not have to worry about overdrafts. (if they deny he said then ask for a copy of the taped conversation). I pressed him and asked to confirm no that I would NOT have to make any deposits. He confirmed NO. Which was evident when they “returned”, credited the $1200 deposit I made on about 12/16/10. *This is important to note, as you will read in later chronological events below.
5b). Also, Bret informed me that TWO checks would be issued to me on December 21, 2010 representing the balances of the two business accounts. I believe this is also when we discussed some of the balance would be used to offset the “$1000 Overdraft Protection” I had on my personal account.
6). On December 22, 2010 I noticed that Citizens DID charge me TWO overdrafts for the business account in #4 above.
7). On December 22, 2010 I called Business Banking Customer Advocate Group again and spoke to Christina. I asked her about the overdrafts. She said they should not have been applied and she would remove them. She confirmed what Bret said, that I would not have any more charges to my accounts because they were closed and anything remaining would be returned. ** VERY important as this story would change when I speak to Kim from the Business Banking Customer Advocate Group in later events below.
8). During the week of January 3, 2011 I contacted the Business Banking Customer Advocate Group again to inquire about the two checks.
9). On January 13, 2010 I received two letters from Citizens that my personal and business account were “overdrawn” and I needed I go to a bank and make deposits to these account. WHAT? Remember what happened in #5 and 5b above?
10). On January 13, 2011 I again contacted the Citizens Business Banking Customer Advocate Group and this time spoke to a Kim. She informed me that charges came in later and there wasn’t enough to cover the charges (since they removed the overdraft protection and also transferred money from my business accounts into my personal accounts. But, she said More money was moved from the business account (that I was told was closed out on December 21, 2010 and a check was issued for the balance, and almost a MONTH later Citizens is still manipulating my business and personal funds). QUESTION: Why didn’t Citizens just issue me a balance or invoice of what I owed instead of moving money between business and personal accounts? Resulting in this frenzy of activity and anxiety.
11). ON January 14, 2011 I noticed in my Citizens personal account about TEN “service charges” for $6.99. I called Banking Customer Advocate Group and spoke to Kim again and she said those were “overdraft service fees” because everyday my account was in the negative ws a service charge of $6.99. Reading above WHY was it in the negative? They Confirmed several times they would be NO charges (all would be returned) after December 21, 2011. BUT, with all the excuses and rational Citizens will throw up against the wall, ASK THEM, WHY didn’t you move the shortage from the business accounts as you were already dog from the beginning. AND, HOW could the customer do anything? Citizens already told me and DID “RETURN” deposits I made after the December 21, 2011 cutoff (see #4 & 5 above). WOW!
12). January 14, 2011, I noticed I had several UNIDENTIFIED charges to my account that would just say “Debit”. So much highly QUESTIONABLE Citizens bank activity and usage of my funds has been going on that I asked Kim to provide a statement that detailed what, how, why and when funds where moved between accounts. She just told me to go to a local branch. However, it is obvious a local branch would not have the capacity to solve this “riddle”. And the statements the branch managers could see are the same as my online statements with multiple unidentified debits.
As of January 14, 2010 I need detailed reports of all the activity between my accounts and the movement between the accounts. I will seek help from banking regulation agencies including the Comptroller of the Currency and Federal Reserve.
UPdate - March 7, 2011:
Also, I would like to inform you that Citizens sent me a letter I received on December 23, 2010 stating that my account XXXXXXXX was closed on December 21,2010. However, I made a car payment to Sovereign on December 17, 2010, that had a STOP PAYMENT applied by Citizens. I didn’t find out about it until early January 2011 and it resulted in a $15 fee from Sovereign but Most Damaging resulted in a 30 Day late mark on my credit report.
Thursday, February 4, 2010
History of Original Vintage Movie Posters & Movie Memorabilia
History of Vintage Movie Posters
Original vintage movie posters and movie memorabilia have become increasingly desirable by collectors over the past 25 years. Most people don't realize vintage movie posters are available to the general public . They were only to be loaned to theatre owners and then returned thereafter thereby never produced for the collector market. Vintage movie posters even have a studio notation on the bottom stating “Property of National Screen Service Licensed for Display Purposed Only, Must Be Returned”. Before the monopolization of the movie theatre industry, move posters were also used throughout the community to promote upcoming films. The barber shop, drug store and local hardware store displayed movie poster “inserts” and “window cards”. Today, only the “one sheet” movie poster is produced and displayed in the theatre lobbies.
In 1933, one of the darkest years of the Great Depression, a theater owner might receive a 15-cent credit for returning a movie poster to his regional exchange. Compare this figure with the cost of a gallon of gas (18 cents) or a loaf of bread (12 cents) and it’s easy to understand why very few movie posters survived from this period. If the austerity of the times and the frugality of theater owners was not enough to keep movie posters out of the hands of the general public, the sweeping paper drives of the war years also did their part to help keep movie memorabilia out of general circulation. So it’s no surprise that movie posters from the years of 1930 through 1945 are quite scarce.
In fact, it is estimated that fewer than 20 copies of movie posters exist from most films made during the period of 1930 through 1945. For many landmark films of the era (e.g., “The Grapes of Wrath”, “Stagecoach”, “The Wizard of Oz”, “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs”, “Fury”, “The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes”, “Flash Gordon”) it is believed that less than a dozen examples have survived of any particular poster.Over the years original movie posters have been produced in various shapes and sizes. Before the 1980’s and the demise of the small town movie theatres (as a result of the monopolization of the industry by companies like Showcase cinemas) also meant the extinction of all the breath-taking movie posters such as the lobby cards, window cards, insert, half sheets and the traffic-stopping 3, 6 and 24 sheets. The primary movie poster that survives today is the standard one sheet. Below is a glossary of the most popular vintage movie posters that once played a major role in the promotion and exhilarating anticipation of upcoming movie events.
One Sheets & Half Sheet Movie Posters:
These have always been the primary advertising posters used by theatres since the early 1900’s. The one sheet (27x41”) is still used today in the lobbies of the major movie theatres. However, the half sheets (22x28”) became extinct around 1980. Vintage one sheets of major classics from pre 1960 are highly sought after by collectors sometimes paying over $1,000,000 for such gems as Frankenstein or Metropolis.
Lobby Card Movie Posters:
Lobby cards were used in U.S. theaters prior to the late 1970’s. They are rarely produced for today’s films. These small movie posters (11”x14”) printed on card stock were generally produced in sets of eight. These mini movie posters were designed for display in a theater’s lobby for the purpose of luring movie goers into the theater by showing highlights from the movie. A lobby card set entailed one Title Card (TC), a lobby card of usually designed similar to the one sheet with credits and feature/close-up artwork of the major stars, and seven Scene Cards (SC), each depicting a different scene from the movie. Original vintage lobby cards are highly collectible today because they often depict the most memorable scenes in the movie which were not captured on the other style posters. In addition, lobby cards are the perfect size for framing and display.
Window Card and Insert Movie Posters:
Highly collectible vintage movie posters today also include Widow Cards (14x22”) and Inserts (14x36”). These movie poster styles were primarily used to promote the movie in local businesses, such as the drug store and local barber shop. As with lobby cads these movie posters are often very desirable due to their superior vintage graphics and artwork. Modern day posters generated by computer have lost their artistic value as compared to the vintage movie posters created by highly skilled artists.
Linen Backing your Vintage Movie Posters:
Linen backing is a process of restoring and/or maintaining a vintage movie poster’s life. The movie poster is laid onto a cloth like acid-free material that actually helps preserve the older NON Acid free movie poster paper that would otherwise become very brittle and eventually deteriorate. Also, by laying movie posters onto acid free linen it removes the flaws including the fold lines which all vintage movie posters have. It also allows for restoration of any holes, tears or small missing pieces. It is one of the few collectible restoration processes that actually adds value to the poster. All of the most expensive posters, such as the million dollar “Mummy” have been professionally linen backed. If you have ever seen the difference between an un-linen backed and a linen backed poster, there is no comparison. Linen backed posters are simply beautiful.
Original vintage movie posters and movie memorabilia have become increasingly desirable by collectors over the past 25 years. Most people don't realize vintage movie posters are available to the general public . They were only to be loaned to theatre owners and then returned thereafter thereby never produced for the collector market. Vintage movie posters even have a studio notation on the bottom stating “Property of National Screen Service Licensed for Display Purposed Only, Must Be Returned”. Before the monopolization of the movie theatre industry, move posters were also used throughout the community to promote upcoming films. The barber shop, drug store and local hardware store displayed movie poster “inserts” and “window cards”. Today, only the “one sheet” movie poster is produced and displayed in the theatre lobbies.
In 1933, one of the darkest years of the Great Depression, a theater owner might receive a 15-cent credit for returning a movie poster to his regional exchange. Compare this figure with the cost of a gallon of gas (18 cents) or a loaf of bread (12 cents) and it’s easy to understand why very few movie posters survived from this period. If the austerity of the times and the frugality of theater owners was not enough to keep movie posters out of the hands of the general public, the sweeping paper drives of the war years also did their part to help keep movie memorabilia out of general circulation. So it’s no surprise that movie posters from the years of 1930 through 1945 are quite scarce.
In fact, it is estimated that fewer than 20 copies of movie posters exist from most films made during the period of 1930 through 1945. For many landmark films of the era (e.g., “The Grapes of Wrath”, “Stagecoach”, “The Wizard of Oz”, “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs”, “Fury”, “The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes”, “Flash Gordon”) it is believed that less than a dozen examples have survived of any particular poster.Over the years original movie posters have been produced in various shapes and sizes. Before the 1980’s and the demise of the small town movie theatres (as a result of the monopolization of the industry by companies like Showcase cinemas) also meant the extinction of all the breath-taking movie posters such as the lobby cards, window cards, insert, half sheets and the traffic-stopping 3, 6 and 24 sheets. The primary movie poster that survives today is the standard one sheet. Below is a glossary of the most popular vintage movie posters that once played a major role in the promotion and exhilarating anticipation of upcoming movie events.
One Sheets & Half Sheet Movie Posters:
These have always been the primary advertising posters used by theatres since the early 1900’s. The one sheet (27x41”) is still used today in the lobbies of the major movie theatres. However, the half sheets (22x28”) became extinct around 1980. Vintage one sheets of major classics from pre 1960 are highly sought after by collectors sometimes paying over $1,000,000 for such gems as Frankenstein or Metropolis.
Lobby Card Movie Posters:
Lobby cards were used in U.S. theaters prior to the late 1970’s. They are rarely produced for today’s films. These small movie posters (11”x14”) printed on card stock were generally produced in sets of eight. These mini movie posters were designed for display in a theater’s lobby for the purpose of luring movie goers into the theater by showing highlights from the movie. A lobby card set entailed one Title Card (TC), a lobby card of usually designed similar to the one sheet with credits and feature/close-up artwork of the major stars, and seven Scene Cards (SC), each depicting a different scene from the movie. Original vintage lobby cards are highly collectible today because they often depict the most memorable scenes in the movie which were not captured on the other style posters. In addition, lobby cards are the perfect size for framing and display.
Window Card and Insert Movie Posters:
Highly collectible vintage movie posters today also include Widow Cards (14x22”) and Inserts (14x36”). These movie poster styles were primarily used to promote the movie in local businesses, such as the drug store and local barber shop. As with lobby cads these movie posters are often very desirable due to their superior vintage graphics and artwork. Modern day posters generated by computer have lost their artistic value as compared to the vintage movie posters created by highly skilled artists.
Linen Backing your Vintage Movie Posters:
Linen backing is a process of restoring and/or maintaining a vintage movie poster’s life. The movie poster is laid onto a cloth like acid-free material that actually helps preserve the older NON Acid free movie poster paper that would otherwise become very brittle and eventually deteriorate. Also, by laying movie posters onto acid free linen it removes the flaws including the fold lines which all vintage movie posters have. It also allows for restoration of any holes, tears or small missing pieces. It is one of the few collectible restoration processes that actually adds value to the poster. All of the most expensive posters, such as the million dollar “Mummy” have been professionally linen backed. If you have ever seen the difference between an un-linen backed and a linen backed poster, there is no comparison. Linen backed posters are simply beautiful.
Thursday, December 20, 2007
Criticized for Preventing Online Fruad
A month ago I included in my blog and web site an article I wrote with a recommendation to prevent buying FAKE autographs on Ebay. Namely, suggesting using the service PSA quick opinion to get an idea if an autograph is legitimate prior to buying and getting hoodwinked. Soon after I get an email form a self proclaimed expert telling me that my article gave him a bad impression of me. Now, I will say that this particular autograph dealer has a less then respectable reputation throughout the autograph collecting industry and was even expelled FOR LIFE by the leading autograph collector organization. By that’s not really important.
What was bizarre, to me anyway, is that this long time autograph dealer considers a COA from the selling dealer (in this case himself) more legitimate compared to one by an independent third party like PSA or JSA. Now, I don’t know what his personal beef is with PSA, but although there are NO perfect authenticators, third party organizations like PSA are obviously more legitimate then a COA from the dealer selling the item, if not for one reason only, objectivity.
Also, as probably one of the first autograph collectors on Ebay (since 1997) I have witnessed thousands of autograph forgers. And, most of them have creepy consistent characteristics. One is that they all will bad mouth PSA. Why? Autograph forgers on Ebay in particular want to preserve the anonymous, un-policed, safe haven for their criminal activity as they have enjoyed for so many years on Ebay. However, I commend Ebay during the past couple years as they have finally employed some kind of program to thwart some of this blatant criminal activity. Namely, conferring with approved authentication services to stop and sometimes even shut down fraudulent sellers.
Hence, when you encounter a dealer or seller of autographs who exudes a lot of negativity toward third party authentication services, it may be a “red flag” and a warning to take caution before doing any business with that seller. I’ve been buying and selling autographs, vintage movie posters, fine art paintings and sport memorabilia for over 20 years, and a second opinion is always a good thing.
What was bizarre, to me anyway, is that this long time autograph dealer considers a COA from the selling dealer (in this case himself) more legitimate compared to one by an independent third party like PSA or JSA. Now, I don’t know what his personal beef is with PSA, but although there are NO perfect authenticators, third party organizations like PSA are obviously more legitimate then a COA from the dealer selling the item, if not for one reason only, objectivity.
Also, as probably one of the first autograph collectors on Ebay (since 1997) I have witnessed thousands of autograph forgers. And, most of them have creepy consistent characteristics. One is that they all will bad mouth PSA. Why? Autograph forgers on Ebay in particular want to preserve the anonymous, un-policed, safe haven for their criminal activity as they have enjoyed for so many years on Ebay. However, I commend Ebay during the past couple years as they have finally employed some kind of program to thwart some of this blatant criminal activity. Namely, conferring with approved authentication services to stop and sometimes even shut down fraudulent sellers.
Hence, when you encounter a dealer or seller of autographs who exudes a lot of negativity toward third party authentication services, it may be a “red flag” and a warning to take caution before doing any business with that seller. I’ve been buying and selling autographs, vintage movie posters, fine art paintings and sport memorabilia for over 20 years, and a second opinion is always a good thing.
Thursday, October 11, 2007
Buying Autographs, Fine Art and other Collectibles Online Carries a Risk
So, you're on Ebay bidding $200 for a rare autographs like a photo of Humphrey Bogart. There's 10 seconds left to the auction so your heart starts to race....7..5..4..3..2..1...YOU WON! Wow, you just won a $3000 signed photo for only $200, WHAT A DEAL! The seller has 100% feedback so no problems with authenticity, right? Two weeks later you get the photo, looks nice, you show it to your family. Six months later, you send the sign photo to a reputable auction house that specializes in selling autographs. The highly experienced dealer looks at the photo and responds with his opinion. There is a 99% chance he is going to tell you what?
Tune in next Thursday for the answer and several extremely valuable tips that could save you THOU$ANDS.
Kevin Conway is the owner of Conway's Vintage Treasures, an e-commerce site for the high-end collector of Primitive Fine Art Oil Painitings, Rare Autographs, Vintage Movie Posters, Antique Toys, Vintage Sports Memorabilia and other unusual antiques and collectibles.
Conway's Vintage Treasures
http://www.cvtreasures.com/
Tune in next Thursday for the answer and several extremely valuable tips that could save you THOU$ANDS.
Kevin Conway is the owner of Conway's Vintage Treasures, an e-commerce site for the high-end collector of Primitive Fine Art Oil Painitings, Rare Autographs, Vintage Movie Posters, Antique Toys, Vintage Sports Memorabilia and other unusual antiques and collectibles.
Conway's Vintage Treasures
http://www.cvtreasures.com/
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